Jason Whitney and Jamie Macnaughton are two punks who have been organizing benefit shows for Palestine in Toronto for the last few months, including one happening this Saturday, February 17, at 2:30pm at the United Steelworkers Hall, 25 Cecil Street. Spring member Autumn Easterbrook sat down with Jason and Jamie to find out why they feel it’s important for punks to show up for Palestine.
Thanks for coming guys. Let’s just start by telling everyone a little bit about yourselves.
Jason: I’m Jason, I’m 36 years old, and I’ve been involved in the punk and hardcore community for more than half my life at this point, playing in bands and going to shows.
Jamie: I’m Jamie, I’m 21. I’ve been involved in punk and hardcore for less time, maybe five or six years. I play in a band called The Fact and a band called 9MILLION and I do a zine called Search Beyond Fanzine.
And how did you guys meet?
Jamie: I met Jason through just going hardcore shows. I think I saw his band Total Silence in August, but I might have even met him before then.
Jason: I don’t know exactly when we met, but it was definitely at a show. I’m an older guy at the shows and Jamie’s a younger guy, but we have a lot of mutual friends who kind of bridged the gap.
You guys have organized two of these benefit shows so far and there’s a third show on the way. I’m wondering, what inspired you guys to put these shows together in the first place?
Jamie: I just saw everything that was happening and wanted to do whatever I could. There hadn’t been a show within Toronto punk and hardcore yet to the best of my knowledge, and that seemed odd to me because the community is very left-leaning. I was talking with someone about booking a show around October or November, but nothing was really coming together, and that show sort of fell through mainly for logistical reasons. Then later on I heard that Jason was also trying to book a benefit show.
Jason: Yeah, I had been thinking about putting a benefit show together and heard that Jamie was trying to put something together, so I hit him up and was like, ‘Hey, let’s do it.’ There were a few punk shows that I had been to since Israel’s siege on Gaza had begun, and no one at any of these shows had said anything about what was going on over there, and that really disappointed me. Actually, there were two bands who said something, but neither were locals–extra disappointing. Shout out to Spaced and Stigmatism for actually saying something at a show. I also saw footage from a show that happened in New York in November. It was a benefit for Palestinian Youth Movement, and was organized by members of this Arab-American punk band called Pure Terror. Some 700 people turned out to that show, everyone was waving Palestinian flags, and it just looked super cool. I was like, “We can do something like that in Toronto.” Those were the two main inspirations.
I remember feeling the same way (regarding a lack of artists speaking up). For anyone who doesn’t know, there was a benefit show for Palestine being put on at the Horseshoe Tavern. Unfortunately, Zionists coordinated to email the owner; he subsequently canceled that show and then had a meltdown when questioned by the bands and their supporters. I even think it had to be moved a couple times. Do you feel like that type of thing might have been a deterrent at all? I mean the idea of being attacked by Zionists online?
Jason: As Jamie said, the punk and hardcore community is very left-leaning, so I wasn’t worried about it too much. As for our shows, we organize them quickly from when the show is announced to when it actually happens, so that it gives enough time for people who care to know that it’s happening, but not so much time that people who might be opposed can do something about it.
You both have talked about punk being left-wing, and while it’s definitely true that punk and hardcore has been a vector or hotbed for left-wing politics in the past, I’m wondering, why do you guys think that might be the case?
Jamie: It’s kinda hard to say. In many ways punk was sort of a reactionary response to the politics of the time. It’s hard to say without getting into the whole history of hardcore.
Jason: I think that it’s very community driven. Punk and hardcore attract a lot of people from different backgrounds, a lot of people who have experienced messed up things throughout their life. So, when you hear about these experiences, you realize how messed up the world is. At the same time with that sense of community you feel empowered that you can make a change.
It sounds to me like community is an important part of what it means to be both a punk as well as to have left-wing politics–it feels like it has to be centered in community.
Jason: Yeah, to me, being left-wing or a communist–if you wanna call it that–is basically just about not being an asshole. It boils down to caring about people, and what happens to other people, even if it doesn’t affect you directly.
Why do you guys think it’s important for artists to show up for Palestine?
Jamie: I think it’s important for everyone including artists to show up for Palestine because within the mainstream media, the entire narrative is centered around Israel being the victim. It’s a really hard narrative to avoid for people who consume mostly mainstream media, because that’s all that they’re seeing on the news, all of the time–that Israel is the victim or that Israel has an inalienable right to supposedly defend itself or one of many other zionist talking points. That’s why it’s important for people making music outside the mainstream to really show their solidarity–because this is happening in front of us, right now. In the words of Riley Gale, if not now, then when? If not us, then who?
Jason: Yeah, I fully agree with that. I think that as artists, on varying scales everyone has a platform, some obviously bigger than others, but you want to do something positive with your platform. Speaking out against injustice is definitely something positive that you can do that doesn’t take a lot of effort. If you’re an artist who’s too afraid to speak out because you feel like it might affect your image or your bottom line then you ain’t really about it.
True. Could you take a moment to share with us why you chose these specific organizations and, if you feel comfortable, sharing a little bit about the five families that the upcoming show is going to be a benefit for?
Jason: Yes, for the first event that we did we raised money for the Palestinian Youth Movement here, and the Red Crescent Society in Palestine. We felt that it was important to split the funds between an organization here that is helping out in solidarity, and also an organization helping out on the ground in Gaza. Although aid was very very slowly getting into Gaza while it was still allowed, not as much was getting in as there should have been, so we thought it was important to support an organization here as well.
The second show was for the SURJ Toronto community bail fund, which was set up to assist members of the community who were jailed or facing charges related to solidarity actions in support of Palestine, whether that be a protest or direct action. For the more ‘on the ground’ organization for that show, we chose the Palestinian Children’s Relief Fund (PCRF)–partially because it was incredibly difficult to send money to the Palestine Red Crescent Society. The Palestine Red Crescent Society has been working with the PCRF so we knew that the funds would likely go to the same place.
As for this show, supporting organizations is good, but mutual aid is arguably more important. I’ve been involved with an organization here in Niagara where I live called the Niagara Palestine Coalition. Through that I’ve gotten to meet members of the Palestinian community in Niagara, and a few of them have family in Gaza that they’re currently trying to bring over. And there’s so much red tape. There’s so many fees involved in getting them out of Gaza. Not to mention the amounts of money that Egyptian border guards are asking for as bribes.
There are also fees and other things that the Canadian government is asking for. Biometrics, when there’s very few medical facilities functioning in Gaza. Ridiculous things like job history from as far back as 16 years old–and some of these people are 70-75 years old. I probably can’t manage to list the names of my employers and managers from over the last twenty years; imagine having to do that for the past fifty. There are all sorts of double standards that are being applied that weren’t applied to, say Ukrainian refugees for example.
They have to have family members living in Canada to be eligible to come here, and fortunately, some people do have family members here, but that’s not the case for a lot of the people in Gaza who want to flee because there is no end in sight. For example, just today, once again, Benjamin Netanyahu rejected a cease-fire deal that was put forward. This just shows that he doesn’t care about hostages, lives lost, or anything like that. He’s using these people as pawns to justify the actions of the Israeli government.
If you feel comfortable, do you want to speak about these five families?
Jason: So, there are five families with 85 people all together that we are trying to bring into Canada. A couple of the family members have spoken at the rallies we’ve had here in Niagara, and their family’s stories are heartbreaking. This woman, Mervat, she came here from Gaza two months ago. She was fortunate enough to have a distant relative that lives in the Niagara region, so she was able to be set up, and now she’s trying to bring her family members over here. This past week they got news that her brother Yaseen had been shot and killed by an Israeli sniper. Obviously people are dying every day, but this is someone in my community’s brother, who has been shot dead. It just shows the importance of how quickly this process of helping refugees needs to be sped up, and the importance of getting these people to safety. Every hour that there’s not a cease-fire, and every hour that these people are unable to get out of Gaza, lives are being lost.
I think that when you see so much violence on a regular basis on the Internet, it is easy for Gaza to feel like a far away place, but knowing that this is happening to a relative of someone you know, or is even their brother… I think it brings another layer to the importance of what you guys are doing. At the second show you guys organized, Jason, you shared a little bit of your personal story with Birthright. I just want to give you the opportunity to speak to that.
Jason: Yeah, I can touch on it. I am Jewish, my mother is Jewish and I went to Israel in 2012 through Birthright, which is an organization that, through various means, funds ten-day group trips for young Jewish people to go to Israel–to experience the land–basically to fall in love with it. I went because there’s a school in Israel that my grandfather funded in 1979, and no one in my family had ever been to it before.
I went and got the state-sanctioned-guided tour. I fell for the propaganda, and came back feeling proud of my connection to Israel. A few years later I took my mother to see the school that her father funded, but this trip was a very different experience from the one I had on the Birthright trip, because there was no one controlling the narrative. No one controlling what we saw. My eyes were really opened to the injustice that the state of Israel commits against the Palestinian people. So yeah, after that trip I was much less proud of that connection. I felt it my duty to speak out about the injustice, and separate Zionism from Judaism as much as possible, because they’re often conflated in order to protect Israel and to justify Israel’s actions.
Gearing back to the shows, I’m wondering what challenges you guys have faced in putting these shows together, and maybe what challenges someone might face if they wanted to do this in their own small town or city?
Jamie: Without naming specific names haha…it’s kind of hard. Some venues, and a lot of people are scared to do the right thing for different reasons. We had a spot that seemed like it was gonna work, but they kind of chickened out. I think that some challenges that people might face in the community could be something similar to what happened with the Horseshoe.
Jason and I have been lucky enough that we haven’t encountered anyone–nobody’s calling venues or harassing us. See-Scape has been more than cool with us having the shows there. But I heard a story about this corner store–they put a Palestinian flag in the window and Zionists came in and pepper sprayed the clerks and tied them up. Like, really, really terrible stuff. I think we’ve been lucky that nothing like that has happened to us. No Zionists have come and tried to start anything. But I think that would definitely be a challenge that somebody might face; having Zionists call the venue, call the cops, try to get it shut down, stuff like that.
Jason: Yeah, we have managed to be pretty lucky with who we’ve dealt with. The first two shows were at See-Scape, and they were incredibly supportive. This next show that we’re doing is at the United Steelworkers Hall, which I’m very excited about because they’ve been one of the few trade unions who have been outspoken about supporting the Palestinian people, calling for a cease-fire, and just generally standing for what a union should stand for. I am a member of the Carpenters union and they have not said anything whatsoever. They haven’t made a statement on Israel-Palestine in years and the last time they did, they basically said that they believed that Israel was not an apartheid state, which is very much not the case. That’s disappointing, but it’s comforting seeing at least some trade unions doing the right thing, and the fact that we’re able to work out of one of their spaces is something that I’m really excited about.
What about highlights? What would you say have been some highlights of putting these shows together so far?
Jamie: Well I’d have to pull up the math, but I think we’ve raised around $8,000. With the one coming up, the flier has gotten a lot of traction, so we’re hoping that with this next show we will hit $12,000. So that’s been a highlight. At the last one we had some speakers, and I thought that was really cool and important. A kid could come to a show because they like a little hardcore, but then come out more edified or educated. They come to a show and they see people speaking about the Palestinian struggle, they read zines about the cause. Maybe they hear a different perspective from what their parents have, or from what their friends or their school has. And that’s really cool.
Jason: Just seeing how many people have shown up for Palestine has been really heartwarming. Meeting people from the community who I didn’t know were Palestinian, who thanked us for doing the show–not that we’re doing anything special–it’s everyone else coming out and supporting who are the ones that are making the show what it is. Yeah, just having people support the cause.
The last show was even better than the first one in terms of people coming out, how people were supporting the speakers, and I think this next one’s gonna be even better. Organizing the speakers has been fun. We’ve had and will be having several Palestinian speakers; it’s been great being able to amplify their voices to the hardcore community, and also having people who might not otherwise experience a hardcore show see what it’s all about.
Thanks for taking the time to do this interview. When is the next show, and where can people go to find out about more shows in the future?
Jamie: On either mine or Jason’s instagram. (Jamie’s is here and Jason’s is here). The next show is Saturday, February 17 at 2:30pm at USW Hall-25 Cecil Street, and it will be a great show.
Jason: Can I plug the bands? We’ve been fortunate that so far all the bands that have played have been great. At this next show we have Friction from Toronto headlining. Mile End from Brampton. Best Wishes from Niagara and Durham. Fatal Visions from Buffalo. Shingen from Niagara. So top to bottom it’s a great bill, and I’m looking forward to seeing everyone there.
Photograph courtesy of A.D.H.C.
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